((OOC - Discussion tiems!))

[sharpestscalpel]

((OOC - So, this mirror game is an off-shoot of the very first online RP in which I've been involved. I've done a lot of table-top, some LARP, and some single-player computer-based RPG but using LJ this way kind of fascinates me. And I was thinking about that and thinking about the things that I love and the things that have been driving me crazy and I started to wonder:

What does your ideal online RP look like?

I'm posting this here because I'm interested in the thoughts of other players but also, if anyone wants to speak on it, the thoughts of readers. It's such an interesting performative way of playing and I'm pondering the back-end portion of it, the meta of it, the tendency of myself to forget that other people can read any of this, that sort of thing. Let's assume that all discussion is out of character - if, you know, there actually IS discussion and not just me rambling along in my little corner here.

To me, the best RP is a form of collaborative story telling. It becomes a tapestry of lots of different stories that all touch on and influence each other. I feel like there are some barriers to that in this format (LJ) - but that in other ways this format is ideal for games that result in a collaborative narrative.

And now we've started Twittering and I'm kind of in love with the idea of a game that works across social networking platforms. But the drawback is that then you have to put in the work to make it happen across social networking platforms and readers have a hard time following everything. I used to play a table-top game that involved a lot of websites and internets research, though, and it was phenomenally fascinating. I'm not sure where the trade-off is for that.

Anybody? Bueller?))

Comments

[lt-moreau.livejournal.com]

I think this is actually one of the best formats for collaborative storytelling I've found, at least in terms of RP. My only other RP experiences have been WoW*, D&D, and one play-by-post d6-based Star Wars game. The pbp was good too, but I enjoy that this RP doesn't have rules, really--no dice, no GM. What happens is determined by you and your play partners, not what chance or an omnipotent entity decides. I like having as much or as little control over the play as I want.

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

I do think it's important to distinguish collaborative storytelling in an RP setting from other types of collaborative storytelling so I appreciate you making that distinction.

There are some dudes I know who do a play-by-email - I wonder if that's similar to the play-by-post you mention.

I definitely enjoy the lack of apparatus (I did D&D LARPing but then I got into World of Darkness table top gaming and goddamn, fistfuls of dice) but one of the things I really enjoy the most is plotting with other players. So it's a combination of very organic development combined with a bit of structure that gets decided on by those involved.

[behnd-blueyes.livejournal.com]

I've been involved in RP, in some form, for many years. Before I even had a name for it, I was participating on Prodigy (yes, I'm old) bulletin boards and then, when people scattered, through email and even actually letters (I still have IC letters from back in the day). So that involved a very linear, threaded conversation--you couldn't really branch off, without starting a new conversation/room/what have you. But it was all we had.

The one I was involved in before this was on a proboards site, which I liked because it was really easy to organize space. You had physical locations, and within that you could have sub-boards and within each board you had threads. And you could reuse them, or branch off into a new thread, or what have you, though you didn't of course have a "tree" like you do here. It was a different experience, but it did mean it was easy to come back to something--it didn't get lost quite as quickly as something on LJ (or, my god, twitter or FB) does.

So this is my first LJ game, and it's interesting. I like threading. I like notifications. I like that we can have a mix of the personal-journal stuff (because meta is yummy) and the in-play stuff--I don't know how many other games do that. And friends lists and communities and all that are really helpful in making an inclusive, varied game: I don't have to search for all new threads since I logged on, they're all there waiting for me.

But as to the actual nature of play, interestingly this is all I know. Obviously there are different levels of collaboration, but I've never played D&D or been involved in a more directed game and for me, it's just always depended on the people one's playing with and reacting to what goes down in character. And that's what I love best about RP: I love writing, and I love acting, and this gives me a little of both.

I may have more to say later but that's what I'm thinking of right now.

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

You know, I always forget about the acting that really is a big part of RP. Like, there really is a lot of that involved. HUH.

The messageboard setup sounds really kind of fascinating. I do think I'd lose track of stuff like that - LJ's threaded comments have kept me here for, like, 9 years at this point (insanity) and it's because I'm so scattered about conversations online.

And the meta of the in character LJ posts, oh, man, I love that.

Directed games - I'm pretty lucky in that I've gamed with way more awesome GMs than sucky ones, which means that the players have totally influenced the overall flow of the game a LOT. The GM presented a scenario and a goal and we made it happen through whatever means we could - it's actually not all that different, to me, from when we plot something and then decide, for example, "Okay, there's going to be a booty call in Sickbay" and then we make it work and throw in a lot of weird character stuff - I DO think this provides a lot more opportunity for deliberate character development because we have a written record we can go back and follow to see how our character arc is moving.

[rarerussianrose.livejournal.com]

The way I play, and which is most familiar to me, is one-on-one over Instant messengers. A two-part story from two or more different characters POV. The posts are written in third person, paragraphs, and corresponding posts of two players interacting with assigned characters.

[loyalty-ever.livejournal.com]

I used to do this by message board, and did a little tabletop RP with close friends--Shadowrun, with what we called "Matrix Rules", driven mostly by the characters and the lulz and NOT the, y'know, actual rules.

I do sometimes forget that we have a wider audience than each other, but I'm usually at least sort of aware of the last six posts on my f-list/can pick out large general happenings that form a kind of arc. I can't quote anything, and I don't read everything.

Back up, flip it and reverse it: I don't read every. Single. Post. I don't. I don't have time! *die*. But if other players mention something to me, I make it my business to learn what's going on and try and stay involved, insofar as I can actually do something about whatever it is.

I find SWC somewhat helpful in this regard.

Twitter is really just something for me to do while I have nothing to do, in a way that doesn't hurt other people's play. I don't think I'd be part of an ongoing, super-active Twitter-based game. It's too damn 'loud', like Skype (asdhfjdhs *HIVES*) or a packed chatroom. I can't function that way. It's not like it's wrong or lame or something, but it melts my neurons and is otherwise not a fun time.

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

I check the @replies when I sign in as a character and just reply based on that most of the time. I don't have time to sit on Twitter and play in real time, ALAS. I can see how it would get really overwhelming really quickly.

I don't think anyone reads EVERYTHING - and I don't think people are obligated to. That's one of the nice things about playing in this format - I don't have to try to stay awake at 2am when someone else is rolling die after die in a complicated arc when I'm exhausted. I can just hit refresh in the morning and see how that worked out.

Eeee, Shadowrun!

[behnd-blueyes.livejournal.com]

I hear you on that last bit, if slightly less destructive to me. But I find it difficult to deal with. I don't like noisy rooms or talking on the phone to begin with, so, yeah. It's just not my space.

[letspunchit.livejournal.com]

There isn't much about LJ's system I don't like or find lacking. I love how you can jump in and conversations can branch off and get into completely unrelated funtimes, without anyone losing track of the original story/conversation thread. And I also love how this game in particular uses LJ to break the fourth wall and interact between realities.

I'm not a huuuuuge fan of IM/chatroom RP (though that seems to have petered out 'round these parts...) - I like to ponder and revise every tag for far too long, and when I see a bunch of people actually live and watching, I feel pressured. I'm guessing, from that, I wouldn't be terribly good at real-life RP. XD

[ephram-green.livejournal.com]

I love that aspect too. It's a very organic and constantly developing thing, and when one player does something unexpected it's great to have my character react to that on the spot. The fourth-wall breakage is also a hugely fun thing for me.

I like real-time chatroom RP as an exercise to practice keeping my character consistent, but I do prefer the time to think over a response.

Our brains, they might be twins!

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

I like that LJ is flexible enough to allow for people of different paces to still interact and play. My frequent typos ought to make it clear that I don't revise at all - but it's because part of the play, for me, is keeping the flow of character interaction moving. I can agonize over wording in fiction as much as the next person, I guess, but part of the huge relief of RP for me is not having to do that. :)

[dctr-mccoy.livejournal.com]

I'm a journal-game girl. They're my crack, and I make no apologies. :D

When I sit down to play, in my head I ask myself what is my goal. I thread for two reasons. 1) To tell a story, in which case I need to know something about the endpoint, where I'm going or 2) fun-fun-let's see what happens. That's where the open posts/meme threads and shit like that come in. The whole 'there is a fourth wall' aspect of this game never fails to amuse me, just as when these characters link to YouTube or something like that.

[rn-chapel.livejournal.com]

Yessss I love the memes and YouTube links and stuff. The sort of constant semi-meta in this game thrills my soul.

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

The meta stuff brings me so much joy. I think of Twitter as another expression of that - I mean, I'm really interested in the downtime, the moments between big events, from a character perspective and Twitter lets me play with that and talk about, like, McCoy's fondness for good food and the first iteration of Sandman's Corinthian.

[ephram-green.livejournal.com]

I really like the LiveJournal format for RP, probably better than any other format. You're right about it being collaborative storytelling. Having so many different creative minds all thinking up ideas makes it more dynamic and more enjoyable. I love the meta too.

I think my ideal online RP would be in LJ format, though instead of on a loosely connected friends list, players would post to a community. I like the notion of a central community to keep all the IC stuff in one location. It actually surprised me how this RP works so damn well without us having a comm.

I started out RPing on mIRC, after someone read my Matrix fic and basically recruited me into their game. It let me develop the skill of thinking fast since it was done in real time over a chat format. It also made me a better writer I think, because I was able to really get into the mind of a character. Apparently IRC is "hardcore" RP, so I was pretty proud of myself for being able to hold my own. I moved on to LJ and did some stuff in a community for a while, which is when I decided I prefer that format. I like the written and visual aspects of LJ, and the silliness with polls. I also love the collaborative effort of interacting with other characters. It's very open-ended and unexpected stuff can make the storytelling a lot stronger.

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

Since the main game was my first online RP experience, I really have no idea how community-based play functions. It sounds interesting though.

[dilithiumwanted.livejournal.com]

I view Twitter as an opportunity to share less of plot, and more of snarky little one liners (I.E. Telling Pasha to go google UST, and mostly bitching/flirting/taking the piss at Keenser), interacting with possible readers, and at most maybe a touch of foreshadowing of things to come. That is, if you read the twitter, it doesn't really affect (effect?) the game that much and it's more of an extra cherry on top of your sundae. Just a little extra Scotty for when Scotty has no time to post something.

I already do a ridiculous amount of research on Scotland, to the point that I'm pretty sure my friends and family members think I'm a Caledophile. I'm not Scottish, so I have to look things up regularly, just because things aren't the same everywhere (i.e. Britain's strange hatred of ice in drinks, the fact that Scotty would have no idea what "I'm a Pepper..." means, local fauna and flora are different, etc.). Chatroom RP would just be impossible, since I have to sit there and type "Shit, what is a stereotypical Scottish breakfast" into Google and understand what I'm reading before I start tagging.

[rn-chapel.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much my take on the Twitter outlet. It's silly commentary and in-character observations about stuff, rather than plot events the way a post and ensuing comments can be.

[nawigator]

Ice in drinks is just wrong on so so many levels -_-;

[john-grimm.livejournal.com]

If you can't tell already, I'm guilty of the crime of being a lazy role-player. LJ... is not very good for a person with my level of apathy.

But, that being said, you're all doing a tiptop, slapbang job. Keep it up.

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

You'd do something about your apathy but you just don't care?

*flees*

*runs back*

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I do think LJ is nicely flexible for people who have different commitment levels. It lets people who just don't play as much still follow the game and pop in where they are able. I like that a lot better than a chat format that is more strictly linear in its time.

[kirktastic.livejournal.com]

I've usually done one-on-one RPs with people via IM or e-mail. I have also done several years of small-group D&D and Star Wars table-tops. I have also done real life LARPing with 60+ people. I enjoy them all for their various reasons.

I despise twitter. Absolutely hate it. Difficult to impossible to keep track of conversations because you have to click on things to see what people replied/replied to, so conversations end up as disjointed pieces of information that could be talking to one, two, several, or no people at once without having any total clue. Also, if you aren't up to date on twitter short hand it adds into the 'doesn't make sense' stuff. Now, it seems, a huge chunk of the RP has gotten onto it. I couldn't even figure out (and still can't) if its actually in character or not. I mean like, affecting the game in character. It makes me sad to see people who barely even post/tag on here leaping over to reply on twitter a bunch. *shrug* There, I said my piece on that which I'm sure is going to upset some people.

Otherwise, I do enjoy this game a great deal. Branching, continual story telling that we're all building as a group. It can be difficult, marrying the people who want a bit more serious in their RP (while still enjoying some crack) with people who really don't want anything or much to do with the serious. The LJ threads keep things succinct and tidy so I can keep track of things, put notifications on threads I want to watch, etc. That's a nice feature (when its working).

[behnd-blueyes.livejournal.com]

I don't really get twitter either, and I'm not thrilled about the interface. (For the record, I don't think any of it has affected anything in-game, but neither do I see lots of activity pulling away from stuff going on here.)

But that's almost exactly how I feel about chat.

[lt-moreau.livejournal.com]

Difficult to impossible to keep track of

If you're following everyone who has a Twitter, you can see all the tweets to each other in one place. My IM client does Twitter too, so it looks just like the chatroom to me. It's only as difficult to know who's replying to what as it ever is in crackchat.

a huge chunk of the RP has gotten onto it

Thirteen characters, actually. Ten or eleven players (I'm not sure if T'Vau-mun has another character on there, because I'm not sure who T'Vau-mun is.)

affecting the game in character

I see the Twitter thing as similar to the Improbably-Timed LJ Entries here, or memes, or posting youtube videos--in character, but not canonical.

It makes me sad to see people who barely even post/tag on here leaping over to reply on twitter a bunch.

Why? I don't think being on twitter makes people less likely to tag on LJ. If someone has trouble tagging but can RP on Twitter, why is that a bad thing? In fact, I think it may be beneficial--getting to play with a character more informally can help a mun develop that character, and maybe even post more on LJ as a result because they're more comfortable with the character.

A lot of people have stopped coming to crackchat, and those who do rarely RP there anymore. Crackchat used to be a place where we could play with our characters and find their voices without having it necessarily impact gameplay. I think Twitter has begun to partially fill the void that was left when people abandoned the chat.

[spikeface.livejournal.com]

My RP experience has been extremely limited, but I do enjoy reading well done RPs on LJ. I like LJ because it allows for extended, coherent interaction between players and it's easy for me to follow. I have to agree with kirktastic that the Twitter developments have made me very frustrated as a reader. Naturally it's not my place to say how people enjoy their RP, but even when taken in one lump sum (i.e. on a Twitter feed) the conversations seem disjointed and trivial.

I'm also somewhat surprised that this group of talented players doesn't have a community devoted to it. I noticed that one has been created, but it doesn't seem to function like others I've known. In the RP I played and in the others I've read, players each had a journal (or just some icons in their main journal to denote whom they were playing) but gameplay would be posted to the community rather than a personal journal, making all the various developments easy to digest in one chronological stream.

[sharpestscalpel.livejournal.com]

The conversation IS trivial. *grin* I think, for the people posting on Twitter, that's actually the appeal. You're safe skipping it, at least for nu!mirror!McCoy, because there's not going to be anything mirror!plotwise that happens there. In fact, I don't think anyone else has signed up - it's just another way for him to interact with the players from the main game. LJ is transdimensional, don't you know? ;)

As for the community thing - there were a couple of people when the main game developed out of the kink meme who were vehemently opposed to communities (citing them as sources of drama). We've got one for the mirror game but we've been using it as a spot for plotting and organizing. Since I've never played on LJ before, I actually didn't know people organized communities for posting - it seems like a good idea. We've been working on a master timeline to keep things in sort of loose chronological order but we've all been just following on our friends lists for so long that I think it's gotten to be the default way of thinking of play here. *laugh*

I kind of like that players post to their own journals - I think it opens the way for a lot of meta like journal entries and the memes that sometimes happen (there's a Secrets Monday that gets posted on a semi-regular basis, that sort of thing) in the main game.

The mirror game might function well with a community for play, though. Hrmn. Definitely something to consider.